Can you actually generate a residual six-figure income by creating video courses and distributing them online?
John Colley says the answer is yes, and he has the stats to prove his case.
Colley currently has over 80,000 students enrolled in his 21 courses available on Udemy and Skillshare.
More Info: https://www.udemy.com/user/johncolley/
What follows is a computerized transcription of our conversation. Please excuse the typos!
John Colley 00:00
Well, it’s the journey from having experience to demonstrating expertise to becoming seen as an authority.
00:16
And now it’s time once again for the show that gives glorious voice to 25 million business owners across the fruited plain Radio Free Enterprise with Frank Felker.
Frank Felker 00:33
Hello, hello, hello. Yes indeed I am Frank Felker. Welcome back to Radio Free Enterprise.
One of the biggest challenges facing business owners the world over is knowledge gathering. How do I learn the skills, the techniques, the tactics, the strategies that I need to succeed in an ultra-competitive marketplace that’s now global in nature. And as part of the whole technological revolution, a great new resource has arisen an entire industry around online education and online learning.
And today’s guest is literally a worldwide expert on the topic of online learning. John Colley has created courses in a wide variety of business verticals, he also is the host of the online learning podcast, and he is somebody that I just enjoy speaking with and gathering wisdom from john Colley, welcome to Radio Free Enterprise.
John Colley 01:29
Frank, it’s amazing to be here. Thank you very much for having me on your show.
Frank Felker 01:33
I really appreciate you being here John. And john, you are in the United Kingdom right now. In your medieval-era home isn’t that correct?
John Colley 01:42
Yeah, we live in South Wiltshire near Stonehenge in England, in a house that we understand was built somewhere around 1380. So only about 100 years before America was discovered.
Frank Felker 01:56
That goes back a little ways that’s a that’s really cool. Are there any, like hauntings in the house or anything?
John Colley 02:02
We’ve been here 11 years. And if there is a ghost, he’s obviously a he or she is obviously a shy one. But we’ve got lots of character and lots of leaded lights and medieval roof structure and a hole and lots of medieval plaster work and all sorts of exciting stuff like that. So it’s um, that’s great. It’s now we sorted out the house. It’s a pleasure to be here, but it took a bit of sorting out.
Frank Felker 02:27
That’s really neat. What a great lifestyle choice. And what a great opportunity to be able to enjoy a home-based lifestyle business in such a home. I congratulate you for that. Well, let’s get down to it here. JOHN, business owners are very busy people, why in the world would they want to spend any of their precious free time doing something like taking online courses,
John Colley 02:47
I’m going to give you two very simple reasons. And I think they’re both compelling and mutually interacting. The first one is very simple, your competitors are just the world is not standing still. And things are changing at such a rate, particularly driven by the exponential growth in technology. And therefore you can assume that your competitors are out there learning and trying to move as quickly as possible and to overtake you. So for only self-preservation reasons, then, you know, you’ve really got to be doing this. The other equation is the other part of the equation is that we very rarely know what we know what we know. And we often know what we don’t know. Sometimes we don’t know what we know. So like driving a car, you do it without thinking. But the last of these four boxes is the doubt no doubt, no box. And that is the real problem. That is the black spot.
Frank Felker 03:51
The unconscious incompetent.
John Colley 03:53
Exactly. And that is why you have to continue to stretch yourself. I when I finished my MBA, I said that’s it no more exams, I’m never going to learn anything else. Again, I didn’t I’ve had it. But actually, you don’t have to take exams, but what you can do is commit yourself to a just a lifelong process of taking every opportunity you can to expand your knowledge, because that will enhance your experience that will enhance your expertise. And ultimately that will make you better at what you do.
Frank Felker 04:23
So if I could synopsize you what you just said it’s to create and or maintain your competitive edge.
John Colley 04:30
Yes, I think that’s very true, but even to accelerate from where you are, and to really try to get ahead. So it’s not a question of just maintaining, it’s a question of really moving forward in a very positive direction.
Frank Felker 04:47
Now, even beyond consuming online courseware and courses, you also encourage people to actually create courses of their own and beyond the time that would be required. To sit and take a course, it would clearly take much more time to create a course of one’s own. Why would somebody like a business owner want to take that step?
John Colley 05:10
Well, it’s the journey from having experience, to demonstrating expertise to becoming seen as an authority in whatever area you’re doing. And if you’re running a business, or whatever your business is, and you have experience around a particular area, if you teach people about that subject, you become the go to person, when they’re thinking about problems related to that topic. And if you are the go-to or authority on that topic, and that is also your business, then your leads will start to accelerate people will come to you with their problems knowing you can solve them. And that’s halfway down the sales process. I mean, you’re not even at that point, having to cold call, people come knocking at your door. So if you can start to create your own portfolio of courses, you start, almost unintentionally, to start building a community of people around you and communities are so important online, actually is very important offline, as well, of course, but you build a community of people around you, who not only look inwardly to you as the expert, and the authority, but who will look outwardly to the people they know, and refer people to you, through the process of evangelization say, Oh, yeah, you’ve got to listen to what this guy’s got to say, or you’ve got to read this, because it was absolutely amazing. You’ve got to take this course. And suddenly your influence and your authority starts to grow and spread. And with that your
Frank Felker 06:44
business wonderful. And I like the analogy of fish jumping in the boat, rather than you having to constantly be casting your line out into the water, which is totally lucky. Because another thing that you just made me think of is the, you know, the sort of continuum of developing know, like, and trust with people and I love turning, you know, verbs into nouns. But that’s, that’s the world we live in today. But that, by watching someone’s course, like I’ve watched your courses, I really feel as though I begin to know this person, I see a little bit of their eccentricities and their specialties and the depth of their knowledge and how well they’re able to express themselves. And little by little, not only do I know them, but I started to like them. And especially if I have chosen to continue to watch their course, if I don’t like them, then I don’t watch anymore. But eventually I begin to trust that they mean well by me and that they know what they’re talking about. And I cannot think of many other ways other than something like an online course, where you could do that remotely with people around the world. The beauty about I mean, let’s start with podcasts as a as a,
John Colley 07:56
like a one dimensional medium, it’s audio. So you it’s still a very intimate, it’s a wonderful form of engagement, because people plug in and listen for anything up to an hour. And getting people’s attention for that amount of time is extraordinary. But when you go to an online course, it’s multi-dimensional, you get the video, and if you take the opportunity to actually put yourself on camera, you’re much more connected to your student, you provide them with audio information, you provide them with slide decks and video screencasts. You provide them with PDF work documents, you often offer the quizzes, you take them through a structure that you’ve designed to take them and help them understand a pain or a problem. And at the end of all, that if you haven’t gone through the know, like trust, then you’ve done it. Because it’s almost an inevitability, that that’s where you’ll end up.
Frank Felker 08:50
That’s great. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Well, you’ve obviously completely embrace the whole concept of online learning. I mean, it’s like a huge passion for you. Where were you first introduced to this whole idea?
John Colley 09:04
I suppose it’s what I know the day it started, which is the day I found out about Udemy. Although this isn’t just about Udemy. Maybe you could just quickly take people who don’t know what Udemy is what it is. Yeah, udemy.com It’s a marketplace. It’s probably the marketplace for consumer type courses across 17 categories, 147 categories. They claim to have 9 million students on the platform 35,000 courses and they say 18 or 19,000 instructors and I know that because I’m just writing a speech I’ve got to deliver at the weekend about this subject. So the way it all started because I had I my background is is I was a British Army officer then I went into investment banking. In fact, I’m still a partner in investment banking boutique. And I started having to market my own business, particularly after 2008 Conditions got much tougher. So I started a blog, I started my first podcast. But I felt I had all this knowledge and all this information. And wouldn’t it be amazing if I could actually get my customers my potential advisory customers to get to know, like, and trust me more by giving them content and then bringing them into my fold that way, and I hadn’t even thought about it. The next step, which was actually selling the courses, and I was fortunate to have as a friend, a delightful chap called Chris Ducker who I’m sure many people have heard of.
And in 2013, in about February, Chris said, Hey, I’m coming to the UK, I’m running a mastermind for a day would you like to join us? So I jumped at the Charles because I’ve been following him online and communicating with him for a couple years, and he lives in the Philippines had no chance to meet him. So I went along to this this one-day mastermind, and I basically, when I had my half had to stand up and say what my problem was, I basically said, Look, I don’t know how to get all this information together and present it to people so I can share it with them. Because I was trying to put up a mix of different plugins into my website to have a membership site and to have a shopping cart and to put a course together. And the whole thing was cardboard and string. And a chap called Rob Coburn, who, again, many people have heard of just simply said to me, he said, Have you not heard of Udemy. And he that was the light bulb moment, that was when the light bulb went off. So the first course I actually created was a, because I’m very analytical was actually an analysis of all the courses. And then on the that was your first course. Yeah, strategic analysis of Udemy. And at that stage, there were around just over 4,000 courses,
Frank Felker 11:47
you know, I’d have to say, and that just speaks volumes about the nature of your approach to, to life and to business, that your very first course was to analyze this huge resource that you would only just now been introduced to.
John Colley 12:01
And it taught me a number of things. One, it taught me how much I didn’t know that there was this amazing collection of courses out there on topics that I had so little knowledge, particularly around the areas of marketing where I was really struggling. But it also taught me that there was a you know, a lot I could contribute. And having a strategic understanding of the marketplace also helped me to understand where I thought the demand was, because you want to go to the going fish in the pond that’s full of fish, you don’t want to go and fish in the ocean where there’s not a fish for 100 miles, because you want people but keeping the fishing, going, you want people to be you know, biting the the bait and grabbing the rug, and, you know, taking what you’re offering. So that’s how it all started. And the more I looked into it, the more excited I got about it. And in fact, I stopped my first podcast, which was called a conversation with a six-minute strategist, which is my online brand. And in October 2013, I started the online learning podcast. And that has since had over 700,000 downloads. I’ve had a little hiatus in the last couple of couple of weeks, because I’ve been working so hard on my new course directory and on a very, very advanced Udemy course about making Udemy courses. And that’s really taking a look into
Frank Felker 13:23
the upcoming courses. But I do want to then transition to the online learning podcast. I didn’t realize you start in October 2013. I was fortunate to be a guest of the online learning podcast, I want to say it was February 2014. Does that sound about right? Something like that?
John Colley 13:40
Yeah, something like that. I’d have to get back into my archives and just check, check which episode was but it was, yes.
Frank Felker 13:46
It was quite interesting that that’s almost two years ago now as time just goes by so quickly. Yeah, time what exactly is the mission of the online learning podcast? What What’s that all about?
John Colley 13:57
Well, that what I do on the online podcast predominantly is I interview other instructors, because I want people to get a chance to know them. Because if they do get to know the instructors a little bit, then they will hopefully pick up the excitement that both myself as the interviewer and my guest as the interviewee have online learning. But I also want people to be stimulated by the podcast to discover their own inner expert, to make them to make them think that they can create a course based on their own expertise. And what I say is, discover your inner expert teach the world and get paid for that.
14:35
That’s great.
John Colley 14:37
And that’s really the mission of the podcast.
Frank Felker 14:39
Well, and you. I’ve listened to so many of the episodes, and so many of the instructors and it it is, as you say people are getting in touch with their inner expert and they are teaching the world. And as I don’t know how many of the people I’ve listened to I’ve purchased their courses as a result, and it’s the same as you say that’s the first dimension That know like and trust continuum, I listen to how they express themselves, I feel the passion that they have for the topic that they’re teaching. Not every person you’ve interviewed teaches on a topic that’s of interest to me. But for those who do, and I see the value of taking the course I sign right up, because I’d like you, having gotten introduced to the value, I’ve become almost a junkie for the online learning process. Now you have been, so you know, you saw this, you dove right in and started doing an analysis, you have interviewed scores of instructors, you created the podcast, you have actually created courses that talk about how to create courses. So you very few people, I think, have really taken a look at this not only from an analytical standpoint, but also gotten right in there, gotten your hands dirty, and, and built the courses and learned everything you could, based on your experience. JOHN, if you could pull out one number one reason. And one other thing is that you’ve shown very clearly the value of creating a course. I mean, it’s just fantastic the way you expressed it. But with all that having been said, What stops people from creating their own course, what would you say is the number one reason people don’t do it?
John Colley 16:15
I think it’s that when you look at the exercise from the starting point, it does seem to be a very complex process. And I think people are almost overwhelmed by the complexity before they start. It’s not really, I thought it I’ve thought about sort of fear of failure, but it’s not fear of failure, it’s, they know they’re at point A, they know they want to get to point B, but they can’t see the way through very well put, because it’s a mix of I mean, I talked about the six steps, and I’ll keep it very simple. But you have to plan your course you have to produce it, you have to publish it, you have to establish social proof for it, you have to promote it. And then you have to broaden out, beyond, you know, where you initially put it and start to do more things with the content. So there’s a whole strategy and when you’re faced, you know, on the starting blocks, I think that can be or it can appear to be a very, very high wall to climb. And, you know, I think that is the that is the problem. But if you can persuade people that by basically breaking down the process and explaining the process to them, that they understand that they can just, you know, it’s the old story of how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. They just take it one step at a time. And then hopefully the overwhelm disappears, the anxiety disappears. And self-belief takes us that’s great.
Frank Felker 17:50
Yes, I think it is the ultimate or not the ultimate, but certainly a strong example of the eating the elephant exercise. And I would have to think also based on my own experience, that you need to start with a great driving desire, a burning desire in your heart, a passion for a desire to help people and share your knowledge. And that passion, that emotional level of energy will help power you through obstacles as they come your way. So let me ask you, then what would you say is how people best overcome that?
John Colley 18:26
Well, my, the thing I would exhort them to do is to take Nike’s tagline is to just do it. But better than that I always recommend, and this is not for any financial gain reason on my part, that people start on Udemy for one very simple and more big reason. Udemy is packed with resources that make it much easier for you to learn how to do the course they have basic free courses on Udemy, about how to create courses on Udemy. There’s a very helpful and very active Facebook group, the Udemy studio, which helps people to Yeah, but they put up test videos, they ask questions, and they get feedback from other instructors or a lot of experienced instructors who contribute to that i i from time to time Come on and give my sort of shilling’s worth as well. So if they can get on and start making the course, they then have to follow the framework guidelines that Udemy set out which again is another aid for them. Because Udemy is telling them what they should do when they shouldn’t do based on the experience of guiding 1000s of instructors and millions of students through courses. So as you follow their frameworks, you start to learn what works for you and what makes a good course, and you avoid making a lot of basic mistakes. Now, these frameworks are only a starting point, but they give you the confidence to go through and produce your first course and what not only that When you submit your course Udemy, then review it. And they come back and give you detailed feedback for things that they feel need to be put right before it can be published. So you get basically masses of free help to get you over that first course hurdle. And it is like riding a bicycle. Once you’ve created your first course, your second course we better, I’ve just created my 22nd course Wow. And every time I publish my course, I feel that I have made a better course and the time before, and that’s after 22 courses.
Frank Felker 20:31
That’s great. I really liked the bicycle analogy. I mean, it’s been used 1000 ways throughout all of our lives. But I really think that it’s an apt analogy here, because the fear of getting on that bicycle is you’re going to fall down and bust your nose. And that’s not going to be any fun at all. And I think it’s a similar fear that people might have here that, oh, my course is not going to be very good, I’m going to embarrass myself, right? Whatever it is. But until you actually get on that bike and figure out how to ride it, you won’t be able to make any progress at all. And but after you have, then clearly the next time you see that biking to be Oh, that wasn’t so bad. And in fact, it was a little fun, I think I’m going to try that. Again, I think that’s a very apt analogy.
John Colley 21:12
And you get you get feedback from your students as well, who will leave your ratings and reviews and that that’s a good confidence builder. You’ll see people buying your course you’ll see the student numbers increasing, you’ll see people starting discussions or sending you messages. And so as you get involved in that interaction, then you’ll also learn from your students, I frequently try and ask my students, you know, what else should I put in this course? What can I do to improve it. And by doing that, you start to learn from your students.
Frank Felker 21:41
That’s great stuff.
21:42
Well, we’re
Frank Felker 21:43
running short on time, but on the way out, what are there like three or four quick tips, just based on all the work that you’ve done, and all the instructors you’ve spoken to as far as success factors or tips that people should keep in mind, when they’re starting to create a course,
John Colley 21:58
I’m going to give you some very high-level ones, because I want you to have the vision. At this point, there’s no point in me giving you very small tactical points. And I’ve got four and they all tie in together. The first one is Remember, you’re there to serve a community, your students are people not fit to whom you are selling things, but with whom you are sharing knowledge. And as such, you have a responsibility to be their guide and then leader. So you are, you know, again, going back to the military analogy, the Royal Military Academy Santos, which I graduated from in the 80s, the motto there was serve to lead and good leaders, you know, serve there, they’re the people who are who are they are leading so serve a community. Very importantly, solve a problem. Don’t create the ultimate general course to how to wash windows. Unless you are making a course for window cleaners, you don’t know how to wash windows, in which case, it wants to be a very specific way, the quickest six ways to wash windows the world’s ever seen. So focus on a problem that your community is serving don’t make general courses, because there’s no demand for, you know, General stuff. If you go into YouTube, everybody’s always asking how to so find the problem and tell them how to solve it. To be successful in the long term.
And this is a marathon not a sprint, you need to build a portfolio of courses, because you need to build a group of work around a topic or around a number of topics. Because one of the best ways to make money in this game is to cross sell from one course to the other. So students who have got in really enjoy one course you can then enhance their knowledge and experience by giving them a second related course. And that if that’s working horizontally, the final point is looking at it vertically. And it’s what I call the product profit pyramid, which Try saying that office. And you need to have a range of courses that vary in price, starting even with free. And then you have a low point, a mid-point, a high point and then you can go on to products and services beyond that even so think about it with vision with a positive attitude to your community. But go in and pre think how you’re going to build your business don’t just produce one course and then have another good idea and produce another course and they’re not related. And there’s no there’s no game plan. So those are the four points,
Frank Felker 24:32
Just wonderful stuff, could not have asked for better strategic advice and from a better source. Thank you so much for that, john. Now, if somebody’s listening, and they’d like to learn more about john Colley or about your courses and connect with you and stay on top of what you’re up to, what’s the best way for them to do that?
John Colley 24:51
I’m going to send everybody to my online learning club Facebook group, because there’s a very active community There, I don’t allow people to promote their courses there. But I do publish quite a lot of content there. And I’m always very responsive to people who asked me questions. So that’s probably the easiest way to get into the stream of what I’m thinking. So that’s online learning club, Facebook group, and that’s at facebook.com groups forward slash groups forward slash o l club. Great. So that’s very simple. And if you want to know more about Udemy, and again, I’m not trying to sell you anything, if you go to Udemy. And just type in a Udemy course directory, I have created a lite version of my Udemy course directory, which teaches you how to use a very clever piece of data visualization software, which you can download for free. And you can play around and look at around 4000 courses completely for free and get a feel for some of the types of things that are in Udemy. And so you can you it’s a very interactive and holistic way of looking at the Udemy marketplace, my main courses got 18 and a half 1000, shortly to have 21 and a half 1000 courses in it. You’ll find that as well. But I want to start you off, just go to the free course and play around and see what courses come up in the sorts of topics that you’re interested in.
Frank Felker 26:23
And I will have links to both the online learning club Facebook group, and to John’s free course, in the on the show notes page for this episode of Radio Free Enterprise.
John Colley 26:34
And if you do come and join the Facebook group, you know, just give me a shout out and just say, Hey, you know, I’m listening to Frank’s great podcast. And I’ve come over to say hello, and it’d be great to welcome you into the group. Wonderful.
Frank Felker 26:47
John Colley, thank you so much for joining us today on Radio Free Enterprise.
John Colley 26:51
It’s been a huge pleasure. Thank you very much, Frank.
Frank Felker 26:54
Thanks again to John Colley and thank you for listening. Now, what we need to do next is you need to go to the iTunes Store and subscribe to the Radio Free Enterprise podcast while you’re there, maybe leave me a little rating. Maybe leave me a little review. I’m just saying. After that, come on back to Radio Free Enterprise comm and register with the site so you can stay on top of all the exciting things happening here at RFE HQ. You promised to do that, and I promised to remain your fearless host Frank Felker. Until next time, I’ll see you on the radio.
27:27
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