Most small businesses start out as one-person operations, with the founder serving as head cook and bottle washer until there is just too much business and too many tasks to handle alone.
That is the moment when every rookie entrepreneur has to face the dreaded task of hiring their first employee. Many questions need to be addressed and answered.
Which position should I fill first?
How can I find the right person?
How much will I have to pay them?
How can I attract a quality person to a small firm like mine?
In this interview, first-time entrepreneur Curtis Marshall receives mentoring from long-time entrepreneur and multimillion-dollar business manager Brian Fielkow on how to answer those questions and start building his company.
What follows is a computerized transcription of our conversation. Please excuse any typos!
Brian Fielkow 00:00
Your first hire and every hire you make after that will redefine your culture.
00:13
And now it’s time once again for the show that gives glorious voice to 25 million business owners across the fruited plain Radio Free Enterprise with Frank Felker.
Frank Felker 00:30
On today’s show, we’re going to do something completely different. I have two guests joining me to talk about one topic, and that topic is attracting retaining and developing top talent into your business. My first guest is a first-time entrepreneur Curtis Marshall, the owner of DC dot rentals, a small but rapidly growing residential property management firm based out of Alexandria, Virginia. Curtis, welcome to the program.
Curtis Marshall 01:04
Thanks a lot, Frank.
Curtis Marshall 01:05
Happy to be here.
Frank Felker 01:06
My other guest is a veteran entrepreneur, Brian Fielkow is president of jet co delivery in Houston, Texas, and the author of driving to perfection, achieving Business Excellence by creating a vibrant culture. Brian Fielkow, welcome back to Radio Free Enterprise.
Brian Fielkow 01:22
Thank you, Frank, it’s great to be back. I really appreciate it.
Frank Felker 01:25
I want to describe to our listeners what it is, we’re going to be talking about it. Several months ago, I had the opportunity to interview Brian about this topic of his book of creating a culture and the impact that it can have on the bottom line of every business. And it seemed like as we were going along, over and over again, the topic came back to attracting and keeping the right people in your business says people create the culture. And the course management is the fifth m of the six M’s of the m cube that I write about. And I recently had the opportunity to talk with Curtis Marshall about a challenge that he’s currently facing that faces every entrepreneur when they first start out in business, which is bringing on that first employee. And then by extension, what you learn to that process is going to help you to bring on your entire team and build that team going forward.
And it just struck me that here we have, or I have, the acquaintance of Brian Fielkow, a veteran entrepreneur recruiter for his businesses, cheerleader for his businesses management expert. And at the other end, I have this relationship with Curtis Marshall, I thought, you know, I bet Brian could really help Curtis out. So as you’re listening to this program, whatever number of employees you have from zero to 100, I hope that you’ll try to put yourself in in Curtis’s shoes right now. And think about what it’s like when you’re making that decision to hire on your first person, we’re going to ask Curtis to speak to the challenges he’s facing right now. And then try to integrate in Brian’s experience into it, I think we’ll all get a lot out of it. Curtis, I’d like to start with you, if you would describe the problem that you’re facing. Particularly what I have in mind, is what you told me about how your business has grown so rapidly and is expanding at the point where you simply can no longer be that one-man band, you’re going to have to start bringing in people to do production, administration work and so forth. But right now you’re just facing that aspect of bringing in the first person, the first employee, tell me tell me how you’re feeling and tell me the thoughts that are going through your mind relative to that.
Curtis Marshall 03:34
Well, thanks, Frank, I’m actually really excited about this conversation. After we spoke, I was able to listen to your earlier interview with Brian. And I’m excited to be able to connect this idea and this issue that I have with this concept of culture. So a quick recap of the issue that I’m facing is kind of like you said, I’m about a year into the business. I’m doing property management, the business has gone very well. I have about 20 properties. Now I’m just at a point that it’s relatively sustainable, I’m able to I’m making money, I don’t have any debt, everything is going pretty well. But I am starting to be overwhelmed. I’m taking time away from my family, taking time away from my hobbies, and the business has really started to become all consuming.
So I need to bring somebody on but the issue that I’m facing and what we talked about, and the reason that I’m kind of questioning and needing some advice is because bringing somebody on is going to take me from a place that I am I’m making good money and it’s sustainable for me and my family to a place where I’m going to come up short. There’s going to be a financial shortfall as I bring someone on with the intent to be able to grow with that at least one additional person, obviously more people in the future with that additional person to be able to grow to a place that is sustainable and beyond as I’d continue to grow My company and I realized that there’s going to be a gap, it may be a few months gap, it may be a year two years gap, but trying to figure out how to navigate that, especially when it comes to finding the right person, so that I don’t make a mistake and put all my eggs into the basket of this person who happens to fail or to struggle or to not be able to meet my needs. And then I have to go back to the drawing board and start all over again. So I’d love to hear your insight on that, Brian, and then a couple questions later, really curious about how to build a proper culture to be able to bring someone in that meets the values and demands of my particular business.
Frank Felker 05:41
Brian, before we get started, I just have a quick question for Curtis and then I’ll turn it back over to you. When you say there’s going to be a gap, Curtis, you mean that financial gap that paying the salary of this employee is going to require you to pay yourself less money…
Curtis Marshall 05:56
Exactly and enough less that it’s not going to be sustainable for me in the long term. And so I’m exactly so I’m going to have to take a risk with this additional person and have some concerns on making sure that I bring on the right person that can rapidly grow with the business. And I can be back, you know, to a place that’s personally sustainable for me as a right now a solopreneur. But soon to be kind of expanding that.
Frank Felker 06:21
So Brian, what kind of suggestions Can you give him as far as whether it is right to put so much pressure on himself? Regarding this first hire, or how we can find the right person? There’s a whole wide range of areas that I’m sure you could offer some advice on.
Brian Fielkow 06:38
Sure. I mean, you know, make making your first hire is a huge leap. And it it’s, it’s scary. But it’s also wonderful, because, you know, it shows that your company is growing. And as an entrepreneur, you know that your work is never done and that sometimes you do you just to take a short-term step backwards financially to move forward long term. But some things I would think about to mitigate that is I would kind of define, what does my ideal new hire look like? In other words, I might be asking, okay, I’m in the property management business. Is there anybody I know, that has a book of business, you know, where they could come and they could, they could both help you and build your business, but maybe they’ve got accounts, maybe they’ve got enough experience? where, you know, they could contribute right away, but by building the overall company, because they’ve got their own book, and they’ve got their own relationships. Yeah, the other thing I would ask them on the complete flip side, is what kind of person do you need, I mean, there’s people out there who, you know, young people, people coming out of school, that really need experience.
And so you can also look at maybe mitigating your expenses, but by bringing somebody in, and part of what you’re going to do is pay them salary, part of what you’re going to do is give them training and give them a help them build a skill set in your field. So I kind of look at, on both ends is, is there somebody out there that could help me fuel the company because of their experience, maybe they’re working for a big company, and they want to, they’d rather be with somebody like you in a more entrepreneurial setting. But if the skills demanded, you know, are skills that you can train, as opposed to somebody that has to come in with this resume, I should be looking on the more junior end of the curve and saying, alright, I’ll bring this person along. But I don’t need to bring somebody in at a salary. That’s going to make me uncomfortable. You know, you got my mind, if the company is the way you describe it. And by the way, congratulations. I mean, it’s every entrepreneur’s dream, to get to this level, I think you’ve got to make the hire, it’s just a matter of how can you mitigate your risk and, and not have that situation where you’re carrying somebody because I think carrying somebody to loss for, as you described a couple years is too long. And I would look for ways to mitigate that loss. And still, but still, you know, leverage the company and grow the company. Right?
Frank Felker 09:26
I have a couple of questions, if I may. One is, how many more properties would you have to bring on? Once this person is hired in order to get you back to the same level of income you’re personally making right now?
Curtis Marshall 09:42
Um, that’s a great question. Realistically, it would probably be somewhere near 50. Somewhere around 20. Right now, at about 50. Because with a single hire, in this line of work isn’t exactly a single hire. It comes along with a lot of other contractors that need to be hired. And you know, other not employees, but other kind of contractors and subcontractors to be able to do some of the work. And so as the whole thing expands, there becomes more overhead kind of across the board. So I’d have to go from about 20 to about 50 properties in order to be able to bring that person on. And the reason I mentioned a couple years is because at the well, at the current pace, I can probably be at 50, in about a year to a year and a half. Now, what I don’t know is how much more exponential, I can grow the business, if I’m able to bring this person out, I would hope that it would be much faster than I can do it alone. But that part is kind of where the unknown is.
Frank Felker 10:44
The other thing, and I think this is part of what I was hoping you could help us with Brian, is he could hire a junior person at a low rate of salary. But the real question comes back to the culture to that person, to their ethics to their energy to their, you know, them being somebody he can count on to do a great job for him. While he’s making this personal financial sacrifice. He might hire cheap, but end up you know, being Pennywise and pound foolish. How do you think as far as looking for lower-level income people? How can he do a better job of finding somebody who’s got the right ethics and the right drive?
Brian Fielkow 11:26
Well, let me let me start by asking a question. Criticism your ideal hire, is it somebody that’s got the skill set hits the ground running, maybe has their own book of business? Or are you looking at somebody that you can train and bring along? Describe for me what the ideal looks like?
Curtis Marshall 11:50
And I think I can answer that question. Sure. So the ideal for me is definitely more the latter than the former, mostly, because if I bring somebody on that, you know, already has a portfolio of some kind, or already has experience, for one, it’s going to cost more. And for two, they’re going to kind of want to call the shots, I’m a relatively new entrepreneur, I’ve only been doing this full time for six months, I was in the Air Force before that. And so for me right now, I’m really enjoying calling the shots. So, so I’d like to bring, what I’d really like to do is bring somebody on that I can that I can train, and really that complements the skill set that I have. So I I’ve done a really, I don’t want to toot my own horn, but I’m good at making deals, I’m good at finding new properties, I’m good at expanding the business. But I’ve struggled with the administrative side of things, the bookkeeping side of things, and I’d love to bring somebody on that could handle that but would still be bought into the vision of where the company’s going and not just be, you know, a data entry type person. So that’s kind of the balance that I’m looking for.
Brian Fielkow 12:54
Okay, are you looking for somebody on the admin bookkeeping, Saturday looking for somebody actually do the property management itself, so you can go out and grow the business?
Curtis Marshall 13:04
It’s kind of a combination of the two. And honestly, I mean, if I could have both of those, I would love it at the moment, I need the admin side, more than anything else, because even the actual management of the properties I can do, but I would love to have somebody to do both so that I can just focus on growing the business, I feel like that’s a third person, and not a second person. But I could be wrong.
Brian Fielkow 13:27
Well, I, you know. And now, as you hire your first hire, and every hire you make, after that will help will redefine your culture, your culture, which is which is the convergence of having the right people, and the right process working in harmony changes every time we bring something new in. So starting the right way, ensures that you’re going to continue to do things the right way. I would, I would advise a couple of things when you when you’re interviewing a person. First of all, don’t ask questions that can be answered with a yes or no. In other words, ask questions that can begin with how, you know what, why. Ask questions about what you know, where do you see yourself in five years? I mean, I mean, people, people will kind of share with what their vision are. If they say, Well, I don’t know that then that tells you that’s been maybe drift but, but it does something that somebody that might say, you know, I see myself, you know, being your second command, as we take this company and grow it, you’ve got somebody that’s got the entrepreneurial mindset.
But be careful you don’t ask closed ended questions. The other thing I’d like you to consider is asked situational questions. So for example, you know, tell me the last time you disagreed with a coworker how’d you resolve it? What was the outcome, because no matter how good of a person you hire, you’re going to have disagreements, in fact, I think that’s part of a healthy relationship is to have those disagreements. So ask it right up front is, is, um, conflict resolution, stress management, you know, if they were ever placed in a situation where, for example, maybe they were asked to compromise their integrity, either overtly or covertly handle it, you know that in other words, especially because you told me that you’re, you need somebody that can help you on the admin and help you so you can grow the business, you’re going to be trusting them with finances, you’re going to be trusting them with, with a lot of the business. So I would, I would want to find the right fit. And you made a kind of clear that you’re not looking for that seasoned veteran, you’re willing to teach. So I think it’s even more important to find somebody that’s got the shares your values, again, your values are your values, right? It’s not it’s not, right, wrong, or indifferent. They are what they are, you need somebody that lines up with your values. And for your vision as the company grows, of the values of the company, the last thing you want to do is have a mismatch there because nothing, nothing else matters. If that’s not lined up.
Curtis Marshall 16:19
Let me know, if you don’t mind. Let me ask a quick question. In regards to that. So I, in reading through your bio, I saw that you that you bought jet co I don’t know exactly what size it was, when you purchased it. And being in the Air Force, I’m very familiar with kind of molding an already existing culture to fit something that that is improved, trying to improve a culture that already exists. The quandary that I’m kind of facing, especially before I make this first hire is, what would be your advice as to how to create a culture that I am inviting somebody into. I mean, I can ask them all these questions and they can come in and then we can sort of just wing it and sort of figure it out together. But how would you advise for me to, to? If it’s not a preexisting culture? How do I create a culture for that first person? I mean, it’s if there’s 10 employees, then it makes sense, you can kind of create a culture that makes sense. But for that first hire, how do you create a culture and invite them into it?
Curtis Marshall 17:19
Well, you’re already creating it, and you began to create it the day you open for business, because people because people are doing business with you right now. And why would I do business? with you over you know, a lot of your competitors? Well, because you’re doing something different, you’re bringing something unique to the table. Right? Makes sense. And the entrepreneurs challenge and God knows I’ve faced this is, as you grow, how do you how do you ensure that the company continues to do that concept to, to leverage and execute on your secret ingredient, and not lose it as you grow? So the right time to talk about it is right now when you make your first hire? I wouldn’t, especially at this stage, I wouldn’t get too fancy or too formal. But I would write down on a piece of paper before. Before my first interview, here’s who I am. here’s, here’s what I’ve done. Here’s my here are my personal values. Here’s my vision for the company and share it. And I mean, kind of share a one page, MIT personal mission statement of personal slash company mission statement, to let to let me as the candidate know who you are, what you stand for, what are your values? I mean, coming from the military, I love hiring people from the military, because really, you know, military is so process focused. That’s what a lot of entrepreneurs like us sometimes miss is, we hire the right people, but we don’t have the process. There’s not a uniform way of doing things. And suddenly, all of a sudden, we wind up. It’s like we’re herding cats. So because you’ve got this, because you’ve got this background, you got to separate it to get it right the first time, use what you learned in the military, which is that nothing works without the right people in the right process. So you know, again, if this if the company size here, we needed a process manual, we need to go out and build the business, but to have a one pager that let’s let the candidate know and what that ought to do is very, very rich discussion. In the interview process, you’ll be able to determine whether you’re lined up or not. Okay,
19:41
that’s good.
Frank Felker 19:42
I’d like to ask a question also of you, Brian. I really appreciate what you’re saying that, you know, he’s got a culture going on right now, by the way that he does things and it’s evident in how many people have been attracted to do business with him. But relative to this position, and even though it sounds like this person’s going to be head cook and bottle washer, this new person coming in? How important would you say it is to have a detailed job description that tells this hire what’s expected of them? And what success looks like?
Brian Fielkow 20:14
Yeah, I would, I think it’s critical. Because you may not find the person, it’s going to cover all of your, all of your bases. I mean, you may find somebody who’s operationally good, and can take the project management so that you can go grow the business. Or you may find that that admin I mean, but to me, it would be hard to think I could find a good property manager who’s also a bookkeeper. Right? And, you know, I mean, again, without knowing anything about your business, the thing I would you can buy, you can buy bookkeepers fractionally you can buy their time for actually, so you really need a full-time bookkeeper and a full-time admin or is that something you hire out for a day a week, and you focus on on the guts of the business. But no matter what you do, the job description I like to call a position profile. When I think of a job description, I think of, you know, here’s the technical skills, you know, the technical skills are XY and Z. And that’s important to spell out. But you also need to spell out, you know, the, the key, the key skills and key behaviors that are required, you know, is the person needs to be customer centric, you know, the key values the person has to bring to the table. And also, even though I know it’s early, what are the key performance measures? In other words, if I’m a new employee, whether I’m coming to you, or I’m coming to a fortune 100 company, I want to know, what am I going to be measured? on? What what’s the criteria for me to understand that I’m doing a good job that got a career here, I’ve got a career path here. So I was in that job description slash position profile. The technical functions of the job got to have the key performance, the key traits, the behavioral traits, the personal traits got to have that. And then then, and then the performance measures, how am I going to? How am I is the owner and president of the company going to measure you? And what are the standards we’re going to measure against because the earlier you can establish a standard, the more you can get people to behave and execute? Along those measures? The biggest problem I see is, you hire a good employee, you give them no guidance, they have no, no idea what’s really expected of me. And then we get frustrated because they’re not doing what we expect. But how can you hold them accountable if you never told them? Right?
Frank Felker 22:54
That’s exactly the kind of thing I was thinking about. It’s really clear, and really important to make clear to this person, Curtis, what’s expected of them? And how they’re going to be evaluated in terms of how well they matched up with those expectations. Another question I’d like to pose to you, Brian, is, how about even though this is, you know, he’s at this nascent level of development of his company, can you give him any advice relative to onboarding this person? and getting them from being a complete outsider to the business to being an integral part of the business as quickly as possible?
Brian Fielkow 23:30
Yeah, I mean, don’t assume that because a person has the technical skills, and did the same job across the street, don’t assume that means they know how to do it your way. Right? So what I tend to do this, this is just kind of my personal approach, because it’s I tend to manage new hires that report to me very closely. And then gradually back off. So we may, you know, we may have daily meetings, or maybe a morning check in afternoon check in. Because you got to think about orientation integration is two different things. Now, I know this may not be quite applicable to your company, but as you grow, it will be orientation to me, as you know, most companies get it right or they get it sorted, right. It’s that one day two-day program, maybe that week long program that brings the company in that and brings the employee in. That pales compared to integration. integration can take six months or a year. That’s how you really get the employee into your culture into your DNA. Now, you probably don’t have to worry about that as much because it’s going to be just you in the new hire for a while. would be focusing on building that relationship with him or her getting to know that new hire as a person, the human Being first men, as an employee get to know what makes them tick.
And you’ve got that luxury. And quite frankly, it’s a luxury that the more you grow, the less you’re going to have, other than with your direct reports. So I would start by building that, that that personal bond. Now look, I’m not saying you’ve got to be best friends, that’s not what I’m saying. Right? I’m saying that what I’m saying is that, you know, you got to know something about the person individually. So you kind of know what makes them tick. And then you’ve got to have professional relationship to yet both of those that I tend to do is I try to establish that early on. And then as I trust the person, and that just that’s just subjective, that’s completely subjective. As I trust the person, I tend to back up and give them more and more room. And I can go back and focus on, you know, what I need to to grow the business. So I really, I really, it works for me, it works for me to manage closely. And then back off is trust builds. And it works for me to get to know the employee as a human being first, and employee second, and that that builds that builds a bond that will pay off very well in the business.
Frank Felker 26:15
That’s great stuff. Fine. Is there anything else? I mean, we’re running a little tight on time, and I appreciate the time you’ve shared with us, Brian, is there anything else that we haven’t asked you about that you think, is a critical component for Curtis to keep in mind as he’s hiring this first person,
Brian Fielkow 26:33
I would just take it back to the beginning. And, you know, when Curtis talked about, you know, the concern about the new hire, setting him back, I just want to tell you that those fears, and those concerns, never go away. I mean, my company has grown. Trust me, I have those fears every day when we make a move. And you may not always get it right. And I know it’s kind of commonplace. When you tell an entrepreneur Don’t. Don’t be afraid to fail. You know, to me, it’s you know, you got to you got to Ready Aim Fire. And if it doesn’t work, remember, you’re not signing a lifelong contract with this person. So you need to give yourself room. You got to take the risk. I think people think entrepreneurs like us are, you know, kind of these blind risk takers. Actually, maybe some are I’m not, I mean, they’re calculated risks. But what’s your downside? You know, the way I kind of manage my own fears is what’s my downside, if I’m making a long term, capital decision, and it blows up, I’ve got a downside. I’ve got this piece of capital around my neck.
On the other hand, if I’m doing what you’re doing, which is making a higher, and it doesn’t work out, look, it’s never fun to let somebody go, okay. But your downside, the downside is you can cut your losses really fast, and find a hire that works out better, or decide to not hire for a while and keep a one person show. I mean, with the success you’re already having. I would I just don’t see that happening. But just don’t be afraid to jump in there. The other thing is, this is never, you know, when you hire somebody, and this took me a long time to learn. You know, when I look, I look at my strengths and weaknesses. I always focus on my weaknesses. And I always focus on you know, if I could do this better, this better over time. I’ve learned to hire people who complement my weaknesses, they fill in the gap. So I can play to my strengths. So don’t worry about all the things you’re not good at worry about the things you are good at and your case it sounds like it’s rainmaking, it’s business development. And the more you can focus on that, the more you hire people to take care of what you exactly what you need to, which is the administrative side, but I fear is natural. And you know, it’s something I live with every single day I think most entrepreneurs do. But just make sure you know your downside and make sure you have a plan B, but then hire people that will let you get that that property base from 20 to 50. Because I bet you can do it. But you need the people to compensate for the admin stuff. So you can do it properly.
29:31
Curtis Marshall Right. That’s good. That’s good advice.
Frank Felker 29:35
That’s great stuff. Brian, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and experience with us.
Curtis Marshall
My pleasure.
Frank Felker
And thank you Curtis for allowing us to put you on the hot seat, young man.
Curtis Marshall 29:47
Well, thank you both very much. I really appreciate just the time to be able to learn from to two seasoned vets in the entrepreneurial space. It’s a new process for me but learning from you guys is invaluable. So thank you very much.
Frank Felker 30:00
Thank you to Curtis Marshall and thanks to Brian Fielkow and thank you for listening. Now, here’s what we need to do next, you need to head over to the iTunes Store and subscribe to the Radio Free Enterprise podcast. While you’re there, why not leave us a glowing review and a five-star rating? I ain’t saying nothing I’m just saying. Then head on back to Radio Free Enterprise comm and register with the site so you can stay on top of all the exciting happenings here at RFE HQ. If you promise to do that, I promise to remain your fearless host Frank Felker. Until next time, I’ll see you on the radio.
30:33
Cisco head honcho, all you have is Frank, maybe you should try a little harder, Radio Free Enterprise
