In 2007 Bob Burg and John David Mann published The Go-Giver, which went on to become an international bestseller that influenced the lives of million of people around the world.
In this episode of Radio Free Enterprise, it is my great privilege to speak with Bob about that seminal title as well as the third book in the Go-Giver series, The Go-Give Influencer, which lays out The Five Laws of Genuine Influence.
In addition to his work on the Go-Giver book series, Bob Burg is a powerful public speaker and the host of the Go-Giver Podcast. He has some very insightful thoughts to share and is an absolute joy to listen to.
If you have read any of the the Go-Giver books, are a fan of Bob Burg, or are just wondering what all the fuss is about surrounding the Go-Giver movement, I urge you to join us in this conversation.
Learn more about Bob Burg: https://burg.com/
Buy The Go-Giver Influencer on Amazon: https://amzn.to/36nO4kS
What follows is a computer-generated transcript of our conversation. Please excuse any typos!
Frank Felker 00:23
My guest today is Bob Burg. Along with John David Mann, Bob is the co-author of The Go-Giver, a seminal title in the Business Library of every entrepreneur. Bob Burg, welcome to the program.
Bob Burg 00:43
Hey, Frank, it’s great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Frank Felker 00:46
Bob, we’re going to talk about a lot of different things. And as you and I were talking about just a moment ago, we really, I mean, I’m in complete agreement with almost everything that you talk about, at least I haven’t found something you’ve said yet that I thought, What in the world is he talking about? But so I there’s a lot of points I want to cover, and we have a limited amount of time. We will I want to really focus in this interview on the go giver influencer. But I want to start with the go giver itself. You know, one of the things I was surprised to read about I’ve read the book twice, is the impact that it has had outside of the business world, that it’s been used in churches and nonprofits. And can you speak to first the impact that that book has had on people around the world?
Bob Burg 01:35
Well, first, for whatever impact it’s had, we’re very, very grateful. And we love hearing that kind of feedback. I think really, what it is, is that whether someone’s in business, per se, or whether they’re in a nonprofit, which is still business, or, or whether we’re talking about a religious organization, or a, you know, charitable or what have you, you know, it’s still a matter of in order to be successful, you’ve got to find ways to bring value to other people. Because that’s really what it all comes down to people do things for their reasons, not out reasons. So that person who is successful from entrepreneur to clergy person has to find a way to to step into the other person’s world and discover just like just like in sales, as you and I both know, discovering what that other person needs, wants and desires, and then helping them to get it.
Frank Felker 02:36
Well, I guess that’s why it resonates with just about anybody. And it certainly has with me, I, I typed up the five laws of stratospheric success, and I have them up here on the wall in front of me, because and I have to say it’s had a really profound impact on me, I absolutely believe in the message. And I’ve started trying to follow that whenever I can, to try to give without consideration of what I’m going to get back directly in return and to be conscious of that all the time. And I have to say, I think it’s had a tremendously positive impact on my business. Now, speaking of tremendously positive impacts, I’m curious as one author to another, what has the impact been of that book on your life? Bob?
Bob Burg 03:24
Oh, well, on a couple levels, it’s been very positive one is just, you know, it’s a nice feeling to know that something you’ve put out there has had an effect on people something that people have have found value in. And of course, it’s very important to, you know, that I acknowledge john David Mann, my co author, who was really the lead writer and storyteller, I’m a how to person, I’m step one, step two, step three, John’s a magnificent writer. And so it was really the collaboration that made this made this happen. on another level, it’s certainly brought my business to a new level, which has been fun. So yeah, I mean, I think in all those, all those different ways, it’s, it’s impacted me, and hopefully, which is a reflection of the impact it’s had, you know, on others.
Frank Felker 04:11
Well, it’s certainly, as I say, speaking for myself has had a tremendous impact on my thinking. And it was sort of like, you know, a big aha moment, you know, that I make sense, I can see that I can think of people that I’ve seen using this approach in the past, and those are successful people, and they’ve helped a lot of people and so forth. And they may never read the
Bob Burg 04:33
book, they may not, you know, they may have just done that intuitively. And I have a feeling you know, you’ve done a lot more of that intuitively than you’re letting on. I think you’re a very humble man. And you’re and I know your successes have been immense. And so you know, I think a lot of people know because certainly there’s nothing in this book that john and I invented, right I mean, success principles or success principles, they work across the board and they’ve always been around and and most likely you always We’ll be, we may have we may have framed them in a different way and given them names and put it in story form and made it relatable to more people. But, you know, the principles have been there. So successful people tap into these, whether they’re whether they do it intuitively or you know, they’ve learned from others.
Frank Felker 05:21
I remember hearing somebody say that they had spoken to Larry King one time, who just recently passed about all the very successful and famous people he’d met through business and show business and so forth. Are those people this person asked Larry, really as nice as they seem to be on your show? And Larry’s response was that, it seems as though the higher up they are, the nicer they are. Has that been your experience as well?
Bob Burg 05:51
Yeah. And so we had that scene in the book between Pindar and Joe. And we’re Pindar talking about, you know, speaking with Larry King, and that was actually from a conversation I had with Mr. King, probably, I guess, about 20 years ago, when I was doing some of the low get motivated seminars. And Larry was in the green room when I went back there. And we were we were just talking
Frank Felker 06:13
for sorry, am I thinking of having read that story in your book? that’s who I’m quoting. Right. That’s great. Okay, please go ahead.
Bob Burg 06:22
That’s funny. I thought you were I thought you were setting me up.
Frank Felker 06:26
I just thought it was a great story. I’d heard somewhere.
Bob Burg 06:29
And I had asked Larry, that because I you know, I asked him about the you know, some of the views of the sky interviewed everybody. And he said, Yeah, you know, he said, you can get to a certain level of success without being that way without being he said, but to really get to that level, what we would call them book that straight at that level of stratospheric success. But what Mr. King said was to get to that level of greatness, you’ve got to have that something extra. And typically, those people tend to be very kind good people. And they want to share their success principles with others, they live very much on a creative rather than a competitive playing, even though in their sport, or their industry or their business. They’re very competitive in certain ways, as well. So there’s a time and place for everything.
Frank Felker 07:16
Whenever I hear something like that, I’m often reminded of an experience I had as a young man in business, my family had a small print shop, and a very large print shop opened up across the street from us and just grew and grew. And this guy, enjoyed tremendous success. But at the same time, he was one of the biggest jerks I’ve met in my whole life. There was a widely told story of him kicking his wife in the rear end in front of customers and employees at the shop, he literally had a sign posted that said, the beatings will continue until morale improves. My point is that I think what you just said is absolutely right, that guy sort of rose to his own level of incompetence. And that was about all the more success he would ever really enjoy. Because he didn’t understand those things. Yeah,
Bob Burg 08:01
yeah. And you know, and sometimes, by the way, there’s an opposite in every story, too. And sometimes there are real jerks who make it real big. But it tends to be not because they’re jerks. It’s, it’s in spite of their being jerks, you know, they have a certain particular talent, or, you know, something happens at the right time, or they’re able to tap into something that, you know, and again, it’s a big world and things happen, but the typically those people who and by the way, it’s a lot harder to be very successful that way. It really is, because few people on your side, you have not built the kind of relationships with people that that where people want to be part of your life. And so, but you still have to, interestingly enough, tap into many of the elements of the laws in terms of the value you provide, which we can talk about later. But by and large, people who do have really high levels of financial success, who are real jerks, and there are some, they tend to not have healthy relationships in the other areas of their life. For obvious reasons, you know, you can’t wait at the office and another way at home, you know, you get people can say they’re that way, but they’re not people are people are people and people basically are the same wherever they are. So, yeah, but you’re probably right about that person that he got to a certain level and who knows, you know, whatever happened to him after that, but
Frank Felker 09:30
yeah, it’s funny, I have no idea Whatever happened to that guy,
Bob Burg 09:34
which is sort of successful, but he probably was not a real happy person. And the people around him weren’t, weren’t either. That’s
Frank Felker 09:43
I can certainly attest to at least I heard secondhand, I never had any direct dealings with the guy. Now a lot of people may have not read the go giver in spite of all the sales that it’s had, and they may wonder what all this buzz is about. I just very quickly want to go through the five Laws of stratospheric success very quickly. Number one is value your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment to compensation your income is determined by how many people you serve, and how well you serve them. Three influence your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people’s interests first, for authenticity, the most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself. I love that. And five receptivity, the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving. Now that was just a quick synopsis. And we obviously can’t go through the entire book right here. But what if there is a main message from that, that you’d like to share with our listeners and viewers today? What would that be Bob?
Bob Burg 10:47
Well, I mean, I think the premise and the main lesson is simply that shifting your focus, and this is really where it begins, shifting your focus from getting to giving now when we say giving in this context, we simply mean, constantly and consistently providing immense value to others understanding that doing so is not only a more pleasant, a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it’s the most financially profitable way as well. But I think it’s also important to understand that it is profitable, not for some, you know, woo-woo way out there magical mystical reasons, it actually makes very logical and rational sense. When you’re that person who can take your focus off of yourself and place it on other people place it on, making their life better. focus on helping them solve their challenges, helping them get what they want, helping them move closer to happiness. People feel good about you, people want to get to know you, they like you, they trust you, they want to be in relationship with you, they want to be part of your business, they want to be part of your life. So what actually, it actually makes logical sense to take your focus off yourself and place it on others.
Frank Felker 12:15
I recently had a guest on who focuses on what is called conscious business practices. Are you familiar with that? And is that something that’s in alignment with your thinking?
Bob Burg 12:27
Well, being conscious of whatever we do is so important. You know, it’s the difference maker? Because since most people see it, not most people, but many people seem to just kind of go in there, you know, they’re in a pattern or in a rut or whatever. And they just do what they do, because they’ve always done it. So when we’re conscious, we’re operating out of strength and choice as opposed to past unconscious programming. Are you talking about conscious capitalism? He said, conscious business? I’m not.
Frank Felker 12:58
You know, I agree. I was not familiar with it until I came across her. And as I was doing research on it, I found more about it. So I believe that three underlying principles are the same as conscious capitalism, which is that they’re looking to focus on bringing value to people, the planet, and prosperity, not just profit, not just prosperity, but also bringing value elsewhere.
Bob Burg 13:25
I mean, you know, so he’s a great thing. I’ve never understood why there should be a dichotomy between doing those, you know. And if you look at any business, it’s a well run sustainably, well run business. To the degree, they focus on bringing value to their team members, and bringing value to their customers bringing value to their community, bringing value to their shareholders, and stakeholders and everyone who’s you know, who in somehow, someway, they touch. These are the companies that are the sustainably very, very profitable companies.
Frank Felker 14:01
For some reason, when you were just talking about the power of bringing value to people, I remembered something I learned from a very young man, I think it was about 21 or 22, on a YouTube video, and what his video was about was how he went from charging $500 for a website build to $10,000 for the same type of website build. And his answer was, because I did a $10,000 job on the $500 sign. And then I started charging 1000 and did the same and etc, etc, that he brought the value first, and then the customers came in response.
Bob Burg 14:39
Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s a, it’s a wonderful thing, and it’s very important to be able to communicate that value. Now he did it in a way that, you know, while he was probably underpricing himself, it’s cent which isn’t something that we necessarily suggest. Like what he did though, was because he was young He knew he kind of needed to prove himself. So, so he was doing what he had to do for a price that he knew he was worth more than. But he did that. For the experience. He did that for the reputation. He did that understanding that if he did that for a while, it was going to come back. And to me, that’s a great strategy. That’s a wonderful way to do it. If that’s what you need to do. What we what we don’t want people to think is that being a go giver is about discounting your services or discounting yourself. You know, by and large, when you sell on low price you’re looked at as a commodity, okay? When you sell on high value, now you’re looked at as a resource. And while the young man was never a commodity, he knew at first that he didn’t have he had something to prove he needed to find a way to be able to communicate that value to the marketplace, he probably would have done it for free. Except for he knew that at least by charging $500 he he put some perceived value to it. You know what I mean? And then he eventually drove up that price to to that 10,000 Mark, and I’m glad he did.
Frank Felker 16:11
I am too he’s very sharp young man strikes me as an old soul every time I look into his eyes, at least on video. Yeah. Now influence was the third of the five laws in the go giver book. And that word is featured then in the go giver influencer, right, once an influencer are both words that can take on a lot of meetings. What is the meaning of the word influence relative to this book? Bob?
Bob Burg 16:40
Sure, it’s a great question. It’s always so important to define terms, especially ones like influence that are so used these days and overused that 20 different people can hear the word and have 20 different definitions. So if we look at a dictionary definition, if we look at defining influence, right, and just a very, very basic level first, influence can be defined as simply the ability to move a person or persons to a desired action, usually within the context of a specific goal, by definition, that’s influence. Now, here’s the thing. That’s its definition, but it’s not its essence. Okay. The essence of influence is pull, pull, as opposed to push, as in the question, how far can you push a rope? Yeah, right. We know the answer is not very, at least not very fast or very effectively, which is why great influencers don’t push, they don’t push their ideas on people. They don’t push their will on people. They don’t push themselves on people. They’re not push he, right. You never hear someone say, wow, that Tom or that Suzanne, she is so influential. She has a lot of push with Payton, no, she’s influential, she has a lot of pull with people. Because that’s what it
Frank Felker 18:03
says. Yeah, I can see that’s a very important distinction.
Bob Burg 18:06
Yeah, it’s an attraction. Right? Great influencers, attract people first to themselves. And only then to their ideas now if we want to. So how do you do that? How do you pull? Well, the great influencer, who we would call the genuine influencer? They would first they understand that what Dale Carnegie wrote in How to Win Friends and Influence People was very wise what I believe the underlying premise of his book was where he wrote, ultimately, people do things for their reasons, not our reasons, right? So the genuine influence or ask themselves questions to make sure they’re focused in the right place, which is on the other person. So for example, how does what I’m asking this person to do? How does it align with their goals, with their wants, with their needs, with their desires? How does with their values, right? How does what I want this other human being to do? How does that help them get further along to where they want to go? What problems of theirs does it solve? How does it help that right? It’s that we ask ourselves these questions thoughtfully, intelligently, genuinely, authentically, not as a way to manipulate another human being into doing our will, but as a way of building everyone in the process. That’s the degree that we’ve earned that person’s commitment, as opposed to trying to depend on some type of compliance.
Frank Felker 19:35
That’s just great. And I was struck in the book in the influencer book, when the character of the judge talked about how with all of the litigants have come before her in her courtroom. She has never seen any litigant on either side of the court actually come in thinking about what the other person wants. Instead, it was all about what they want and So I’m curious with any place in particular with a character that judge came from, or where that story came from.
Bob Burg 20:07
No, in I mean, just from, from everyday life and from, you know, what happens, you know, what happens all the time, there was a great friend of mine who had gone through a divorce and, and they had a child. And, you know, it was it was joint custody, shit, you know, joint custody where they would they would the child would spend some time with the ex-wife, and then sometimes, and, and he was having, you know, he was having issues, he came to me just as a friend, and he just told me he was having issues in terms of dealing with her and that she was, you know, selfish and that she was this and she was that. And I said, Well, what are you saying, you know, when you have conversations with her? Well, I’m telling her what I want, I’m telling her what I need to have happen. And I’m telling her what we need, you know, and I said, Well, you know, let me ask you this question, have you asked her what she wants, you asked her what she’s looking to accomplish, and how how this can work for her in a way that helps her to be comfortably so now. And he went and did that. And you know, 15 years later, whenever he sees when we see each other from time to you know, he’s still thanks me for that one conversation. And again, it’s not that I did anything special, this is just, it was easier for me to see as an outsider, right? Because we’re, again, we’re tapping into human nature, you’ll remember in the, in the story with Jillian and Jackson, the two protagonists, both good people both actually had something that the other wanted. So it should have deal made a business deal made in heaven, right. And yet what happened, every time they talk to each other, they got further and further apart, and you can understand what this other person could possibly be thinking. But what we’re both doing, they were focused on what they needed, not what the other person needed. So and that’s why again, I say that when we talk about these things, you know, there’s nothing pie in the sky about this, or, you know, magical or, you know, this is just it’s understanding and respecting human nature, right? It’s realizing that if you want to, to do business with someone, if you want to have a successful relationship with someone if you want to, you’ve got to look at it from their viewpoint. And the only way we can know their viewpoint because we might think we know, but we don’t we know our viewpoint, right, as we see the world from our own set of beliefs, right? So we need to ask, and we need to then listen, and listen, in order to really truly understand how they see the world to the glory, we do that that’s the degree that we’re able to then, you know, create that benevolent context for success.
Frank Felker 22:50
And then you also go on to say, even deeper, further beyond listening is empathy. And you give the example of a chime being run, and then a tuning fork would resonate to it. And you know, we can all relate to the you know, you can feel it, and there’s an expression like a slang expression you feel in me. And, you know, it sounds a little rough, but it’s true. Do you? Are you really hearing and feeling where I’m coming from? And the way that you brought that out? I just thought was fantastic. Thank you. Well,
Bob Burg 23:25
that, you know that a lot of that is the writing of John David Mann, because he is.
Frank Felker 23:30
Well, thank you, John David, I really got a lot out of that. All right, I want to take a little bit of a turn to talk about sales. Sales is a word that, what do I say I say, for most small business owners, marketing is a mystery. And sales is a dirty word. And I believe that’s correct. And most of most of us, most people get all Ghannouchi inside when they think about selling, and they think about sales. But in fact, it’s a service industry. And I refer to it as the world’s most valuable profession, as, as proved by the fact of how much money successful salespeople make. And in any event, I want to quote you here, if I may, from a video I saw of yours, and I had no idea that you were such a big fan of sales as well. You said many people think selling is about trying to convince somebody to buy something they don’t want or need. That is not selling, that’s called being a thief. Great. I defined selling simply as discovering what the other person needs, wants or desires and helping them to get it. How did you come to that realization by
Bob Burg 24:42
just being in sales, studying sales and me learning like I could have I’ve been a student of sales for 40 years now. Right? And I think sales and personal development they intertwine and I believe in sales and you know, it’s actually And we talk about this and go givers sell more the follow up to the go giver, that the Old English root of the word sell was salon, which meant to give. So yeah, so when you’re selling, you’re literally giving now someone could say, wait a second Burg. I mean, I get that that’s kind of tricky. And all right. But isn’t that just semantics? When you’re selling you’re giving? What are you giving? When you’re selling? Well, let’s say you’re about to do a sales presentation for a potential client, okay, for a prospect. So you are selling? What exactly is it that you’re given? I suggest you’re giving that person time, attention, counsel, education, empathy, and most of all, immense value. So if you’re in sales, you should be proud of it. And you should, you should be proud to call yourself a sales professional. I think a lot of times when people say, Well, I, you know, I would never want to be in sales. I don’t like sales. It’s not that, like sales, it’s what they think sales is. And that goes back to what you were talking about earlier that trying to convince somebody in the fast talking and you know, where you and I know that the best salespeople are generally great listeners, right? They don’t they talk a little bit they listen a lot, they ask great questions, they diagnose, they find ways to strengthen the other person through their insights and suggestions. And so when we look at selling, and we approach it that way, you know, through salon to give, well, now, it’s a whole different story.
Frank Felker 26:38
Let’s, um, if we can go right back to the to the go giver, influencer. And wrap up with that a little bit, I’m going to, if you’ll forgive me, I’m going to read again, the five secrets of genuine influence. And there’s kind of two different ways that you put it in the book. One is a single word and others is with short descriptions, I’ll give the short descriptions, first secret of genuine influences to master your emotions, I thought that was great. Second one is to step into the other person’s shoes. Third is to set the frame. Fourth, communicate with tact and empathy. And fifth, let go of having to be right. If I had to pick one, describe that I really liked that. Master your emotions, because in your books, so often, the characters are in a highly charged emotional state. And it makes it difficult for them to even think much less communicate or listen or empathize. How? What can you say to us about helping us be able to put our emotions to one side?
Bob Burg 27:44
Yeah, well, so it mastering your emotions is where it all begins, right? Because it’s only when we when we’re in control of our emotions, that we’re even in a position to take a potentially negative situation or person and turn it into a win for everyone involved. And I think we all know that and I think we all have great respect for that person who really is in control of themselves and in control of their emotions, no matter the situation, they always seem to have a calm, you know, essence. And yet, so we know this yet, how often do we based on what someone else says? Or does? Do we allow ourselves to become frustrated or or helpless or victimized or angry? And we say or do the very thing that is the most counterproductive? Of All right? Right. And we do this, you know, because we’re human beings, and that’s what happens. And so, so being able to teach ourselves to master our emotions is absolutely the first step without that nothing else is ever really going to be able to successfully happen. And please understand, we’re not in any way saying that you should forego your emotions or deny your emotions. Emotions are a wonderful part of life, they, they bring us joy, they make life worthwhile. No, we’re just saying to make sure that you are the master of your emotions, rather than they being the master of you, or is one of my great friends and mentors, Dundee’s komachi is she so wonderfully puts it, by all means take your emotions along for the ride, but make sure you are driving the car.
Frank Felker 29:27
I like that. That’s great. Now, I want to slide just one last one in here from the book before we sign off, but it kind of similar, although the one we just mentioned, your emotions and controlling them or mastering them as number one, and this one is the fifth one, which is letting go of being right. And the reason why I feel those are tied together because I’m going to show her and I’m going to make sure that I get what I want and you know, and that’s all emotional and coming from your limbic system, the lizard brain and so That letting go of being right, to me is an emotional choice and an emotional exercise. Would you say that’s a fair statement?
Bob Burg 30:08
Yeah. So when we say let go of having to be right, that doesn’t mean we don’t want to be right. Right? It doesn’t mean we don’t care about being right. No, we’re going to prepare, and we’re going to care and we’re going to do our best. But what it means is really this Frank, it means let go of our attachment to having to be right. Okay. And what this does is it allows us to go into learning mode. That as opposed to the person whose attitude seems to be a, my mind’s already made up, don’t confuse me with the facts. And see this so often with people, right. And so when we can let go of having to be right, a couple of things happen. One, is we’re open up to the idea that we may not be right, we may not be 100%. Right, there may be things we can learn that even add to our knowledge in this regard. So what that does is it equips us to actually have the right information and the odds of being right. But what it also does, and this is so key, is that the person we’re dealing with, as they understand that we’re not just looking to be right at all costs, we’re not looking to be right by making them wrong. But we’re looking instead for the truth. Okay, now, their defenses go way down. Now, they’re much more open to us as human beings, and they’re much more open to our ideas. And so to the degree that that we let go of having to be right, that emotional attachment to having to be right, that’s actually the degree to which we’re more likely to obtain agreement from the other person.
Frank Felker 31:51
Okay, there’s a little bit of adventure involved with that, too. Because if we let go of having to be right, there’s no telling where we may end up.
Bob Burg 31:58
That’s that and that was a point there, too. You never do know, do you sometimes you just got to trust and eat the pancakes, you might remember.
Frank Felker 32:04
That’s right, exactly. Right. That’s great. You’ll have to read the book to find out what the pancake reference means, folks. Bob, I always like to ask my guests before we sign off if there was any question I should have asked you that I haven’t or a thought that’s come to mind that you want to share before we go. No, I
Bob Burg 32:23
actually you’re a fantastic host and interviewer You did a great job. You made a lot of fun, and you made it easy. And I’ve really enjoyed being with you this 30 minutes.
Frank Felker 32:32
Well, thank you very much for that. I appreciate it. Now I’ve shown your Burg.com URL, where we can learn more about hiring you as a speaker, coach and consultant. You also have some online training available, is there anywhere else that would be a good place for us to connect with you, Bob.
Bob Burg 32:53
When they go to the site, they can also scroll down they’ll see all the social media platforms, they can always get it there. We also my business partner, Kathy, Agent L and I have coming up pretty soon. We’re just starting to make available a new membership community called the go giver success Alliance. So if they go on to the site and subscribe to the emails, we’ll let them know when we’re accepting applications for that.
Frank Felker 33:23
Bob Burg, thank you so much for joining me today.
Bob Burg 33:26
Frank, thank you so much. Appreciate you greatly.
Frank Felker 33:30
Thanks again to Bob. And thank you for joining us. Until next time, I’m Frank Felker saying I’ll see you on the radio.
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