At its heart, marketing is nothing more than starting a conversation with someone who could be an ideal customer.
Today there is no faster, easier, or more powerful way to start that conversation than to be the featured guest expert on podcasts your prospects are already listening to.
In his book, Podcast Guest Profits, Tom Schwab shares a step-by-step system for leveraging podcast interviews that has been proven to convert 25 times better than blogs.
Tom insists that, using just a microphone, an internet connection, and the information in his book, any professional can speak to millions of ideal prospects and turn them into profitable customers.
In this conversation I ask him what podcast guest marketing is, who it works for, and how any professional can get started becoming a profitable podcast guest.
Click this link to visit Tom’s website, take his online assessment test, request a free copy of his book, or schedule a free discovery call with him: https://interviewvalet.com/rfe/
What follows is a computerized transcription of our entire conversation. Please excuse any typos!
My guest today is Tom Schwab. Tom is the author of the book Podcast Guest Profits, and he’s the president of Interview Valet in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Tom Schwab. Welcome to the program.
Frank, thanks for having me here. And it’s an amazing time. There’s a lot of problems in the world, but there’s no better time to be alive. You’re Virginia. I’m in Kalamazoo, and we’re, we’re here, interacting with everybody.
Well, I’m happy to say we’re both here we both clearly breathing well. So that’s a plus. We’ve got a lot to cover today. Tom, what you do your line of work is very interesting.
What Is Podcast Interview Marketing?
I want to start right at the beginning with what exactly is podcast interview marketing? And what makes it so powerful.
It’s the whole idea of that we’re all one conversation away. You know, I don’t believe that we’re one funnel away. The best things in my life has come from a conversation. We buy things from people we know, like and trust. And so how do you get in front of people, some people will say, well, you need to break through the noise. Frank, I think for honest, when we try breaking through the noise, we’re just yelling, and nobody’s hearing us.
So I believe the best way is to get in on the conversation, the conversation that your ideal customers or prospects are already listening to. And that’s where podcast interview marketing comes in. So the idea is to leverage other people’s platforms to leverage other people’s audiences through an interview, and then use that as the content.
Now years ago, it would be done through guest blogging, or you might get on like the Oprah show to to build your business and build your brand that way. Well, here today, the easiest way to do this, and one of the most powerful ways is through podcasts. Because they are so targeted, they are so easy to do you know, now that we’re traveling is a is a hard hardship or not even doable at times, no matter where you are. You can do a podcast interview from home from work. If I can do it from Kalamazoo, Michigan, you can do it from anywhere.
Haha, Kalamazoo, Michigan is not that much of a hillbilly town. As I recall. I wanted I wanted to quote something from your homepage that I think is fantastic. You say it, this is sort of your mission statement, turn listeners into leads, and leads into customers by talking directly to ideal prospects with podcast interview marketing. And that sounds great. I mean, I’m a big consumer of podcasts as I imagine you are as well. And it’s such an intimate medium where, you know, you’re right in my ear. And I wouldn’t be listening to this. If it weren’t for the fact that I’m interested in that host. And I’m interested in his topic area that he covers.
Can you speak to that how that’s different from, let’s say, being on The Oprah show where you might reach millions, but very few people might actually be that interested in what you have to say.
And you make a great point there, television was always about, bigger is better. podcasts are really about better, is better, and more focused is better. So today, there are 1.2 million podcasts.
That being said, not every podcast is perfect for you. But those ones that have your ideal customer, those prospects that that get what you talk about, those are the the great shows to be on. And really, it’s the idea of people are either going to turn you up, or turn you off. And if you get on the right podcast, they’ll be turning you up. I don’t care how good you are. If you get on the wrong podcast, they’ll turn you down. And also the idea of, I think today, none of us want to be sold, right? Nobody goes onto a podcast and says, sell me something, I log into Google and say sell me something. Now, the best way to sell something today is to earn the respect, awareness and trust of those who might buy.
And I think being a podcast guest is a great way to do that. Because there’s the transfer of authority. If the guest or if the host has already vetted, you has already said you’re an expert, and they start introducing you. That’s powerful. As they think about it, it was the the same strategy that was probably used by my grandfather, you know, when you got invited to an event and you got introduced by somebody else that they they respected. Boy, that was a great way to grow your brand and grow your business. You know, but for him, that meant four hours on a golf course, or, you know, a Lions Club meeting something like that, for us. It’s a half hour, 45 minutes on a podcast. And the other thing that you point out is this is evergreen, so if I didn’t catch the Oprah show, well, I mean, they’re gonna have to catch it on reruns or whatever. But with podcasts you can listen to when you want where you want, even at the speed you want.
Yes, isn’t that something I find myself turning up the To speed to like 1.25 or 1.5, on a number of podcasts, and your ear just becomes accustomed to it, and you’re able to consume the information so much more quickly. Now, before we get to how do I get myself on a podcast? Let’s talk about why I mean, really, what’s the real rubber meets the road value.
Creating a Podcast Interview Marketing Plan
Part of the service you provide is not just getting people onto podcasts and targeted podcasts, but also helping your clients with a marketing plan so that they can proactively leverage their interview appearances to generate leads and create new customer relationships. Can you speak to that? It’s sort of a 40,000 foot level.
Yeah, Frank, and you were so right, because people will come to us and say, Can you get me on a podcast? Now we say, Well, if you want better answers, you’ve got to ask better questions, I think the question you wanted to ask was, can you help me grow my business and my brand? As a podcast guest? And the like? Yeah. Isn’t that what I said? Well, I’m like, well, being on the podcast is just a small part of that.
There’s also finding the right shows approaching them in the right way. So that they say, yes, preparing for the interview, right? You, you wouldn’t want to go on a stage of physical stage of 1000s of 10s of 1000s of people in order to talk with them without preparing. And so we help our clients do that. And then there’s a lot of strategy behind it, you know, what do you do to move people from being a passive listener to an active visitor, and ultimately, an engaged lead? This is a marketing strategy. It’s one that’s really easy to understand, you know, people buy from people they know, like, and trust.
And if you’re just doing a little transaction, if I’m, if I’m buying an impulse product at the counter, I probably don’t have to know about the, the history of the company, the author or the, the leader of it, I don’t need a long discussion. But if this is going to be a major purchase, if this is going to be a partnership, if this is going to be a company that I work with, or consultant, I work with you better, you better know that I want to understand how they think why they do the things they are, and if they’re good for me or not.
Podcast Guest Marketing Case Studies
Let’s talk about some case studies and success stories that you can share. I think that’ll make it easier for people to picture themselves as your client and in that seat, or being that interview guest and how they can leverage that. Can you give us a one story, two stories, whatever you got? Sure. I
mean, we’ve got over 500 stories. We’ve been doing this since 2015, over 500 clients on 20,000 interviews. But as you were talking about that, there’s a few that came to mind, you know, as a consultant, Craig Cody, he’s a fractional CFO, great guy, retired New York City cop, and he wanted to go out there and diversify his business. But we got him on different podcasts, he was able to tell his story. And I love accountants because they know their numbers. And he reported at an event that he got 600% return on investment at one year, and 12 100% at two years.
We work with authors, typically nonfiction authors that have a business behind their book. And with that, Chris tough, great example, Chris was known in this company as the millennial whisper. He was the one that could could deal with all of the millennials and bring the best out of them. Well, he wrote a book about it. We worked with him on a podcast book tour, helped him hit a number of lists, Wall Street Journal list, and also the USA Today bestseller list. Well, exposure brings opportunity, not only did he sell a lot of books, but they got so many requests to learn about how to do this, that the company that he works for, started a separate consulting arm, talking about the millennial whisper and helping large companies attract, engage, and really bring out the best.
So other ones would be coaches. You know, one of our early clients was a coach that just wanted to get a few clients. Well, he got his few clients, he raised his prices. And then he got more and more. He wanted to serve them. So he started to do masterminds. And Frank, at last count, he had done 15 paid masterminds, that’s what he had of 10 people each all paid right around $500 a month to be in his mastermind. Wow. So you can do you can do that math really quickly to realize that your biggest problem is obscurity. There’s lots of people, you could help if they only knew about you. And he was able to break through that obscurity, and people resonated with him signed up.
That’s great. I just love ever since I heard about your model, I just resonated with me made a lot of sense. And I had no idea that you would serve so many people, and that they had done so many interviews. So that’s why a track record. Now, I obviously would take much more time than we have available to ourselves today for you to explain everything, how this works. But let’s start with this.
How to Get Invited to be a Guest on a Podcast
What you know, how am I going to get on a podcast? How am I going to attract the attention of a host and persuade him that my message would be good for his audience.
And I love that you didn’t use the word pitch there. You pitch a baseball, you introduce a human being now I’ll, I’ll take you behind the curtain here. There are three types of people that podcasters want. They want their friends they want the friends are friends, and people they want to be their friends. Nowhere in there, does it say a cold pitch.
So how do you get on a podcast? Well, Gary Vaynerchuk talks about Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, I look at it as serve, serve, serve, serve, ask. So before you even think about getting on a podcast, listen to some of them. And think, could I add a lot of value to this? Do they have my ideal audience? Is it just a big podcast? Or is it a great podcast? For me, there’s a difference between nice people and nice customers. And that’s one of the things you have to look at. So with that, if you say this is a great podcast, I would love to be on Frank’s podcast here.
Well, the first thing you do is give, right? So give a rating and review. We’re all vain, we all listen for our own name. And if you do that, a, if you leave a rating and review, that means a lot to a host, share the content, make a comment on it, share it on social media, that whole idea of serving and giving, then you’ve earned the right to reach out and say, you know, I’ve been listening to your podcast, I really like this one. And I think there’s some things that I could offer you and your audience, that would bring a lot of value. Now notice your goal on being a podcast on a podcast, is to make the host look like a genius for introducing
Oh, that’s great. If you want to know if you do a good job, they will promote you better than you ever could. And so with that, even when you reach out to them, don’t do a cold pitch. Nobody likes that. But to reach out and say, here’s who I am, we’re already connected. Here’s some things that, you know, we’ve interacted on, here’s some things that I could bring value on. And I think if you do that, if you give, give give, they’re going to be asking you Hey, Tom, would you be on the podcast?
What Equipment Do You Need to be a Podcast Guest?
That’s awesome. Great stuff, Tom. Now, my next question has to do with you know, you and I were both podcast speak for you, but President of the AV club back in the sixth grade. And so you know, we’ve got cameras and microphones and headphones and all kinds of happy stuff. But most people don’t. And they are a little intimidated by that. What What is sort of a baseline of equipment that someone would need in order to sound professional, and I don’t mean their speaking voice. But at least it’s you know, it doesn’t sound like they’re talking over a telephone or something. What What do you recommend in terms of equipment?
Well, thank you for the compliment that I’m that techie. I’m an engineer by background. But I also learned in the Navy, that you have to be smarter than the things you work with, which is one of the reasons a lot of times I will go to a pencil and a piece of paper. So it doesn’t need to be complicated. Now you are judged by how you sound. So you want to sound professional. And that can be done as easily as 60 or $70. On a microphone, it could be a gamers headset that just plugs straight into your USB connection, it could be a dynamic microphone, and it’s a little geeky here, dynamic microphones, don’t pick up the background noise button, you want to sound as good as the host.
Nothing will ruin your credibility more than sounding like you showed up. And calling in from a bathroom or for prison. Some people use earbuds, with that just be very, very careful because you don’t want that microphone, hitting your hitting your collar. But for most people just go on to Amazon, any of those sites and just put in dynamic microphone, and you should be able to get one within a few days. That is under $70. And with that, you can use it for so many things. You can use it for zoom calls, you can use it for videos, the one that I use is an ATR 2005. And I love it, it comes in a little pencil case. And with that I throw it in my luggage all the time.
Some of the biggest interviews that I have done, Frank have been from the good old days when I was on the road. And I couldn’t do them from a conference room I could do them for from a hotel room, really because it just didn’t pick up the background noise.
Right. And I remember one time I had to do an interview from my car. But the car as long as there’s no you know, fire engines or horns honking or whatever. A car is actually a very special soundproof room. You know, as long as you don’t need to have air conditioning, there’s a lot of ifs, but you never know where you’re going to be able to find a good room. But now I’ve got a microphone, do I need any software? Am I good? Am I just going to plug that into my laptop? Or my phone? Or what? Where do I go from there?
If you’ve got a good microphone, no, like I just said, a microphone that doesn’t pick up the background noise, you may want to use earbuds I’ll I like the cans, they keep my ears warm in Michigan six months out of the year, which I can just use a little earbuds to. And that keeps background noise from getting in there. And really, besides that, you just need a computer that you can plug the microphone into. You don’t need the mixer and all the all the AV gear on that and then just a solid internet connection. And that’s really, that’s one of the amazing parts about today is that five years ago, seven years ago, you’d be driving to a studio to do all of this. And now you look at it even on on television, you know, the, the pandemic world here. Now, newscasters can use the same equipment that you use, you know, just a built in camera on the under computer, and if they can do national news with that you can do a podcast interview.
How Can You Turn a Podcast Listener Into a Customer?
I want to ask you, how do we proactively without sounding salesy salesy sort of move the listener from stranger to suspect to prospect and so forth? How can we turn an interview into an opportunity for a listener to reach out to us and ask for more information?
And that’s, that’s one of the great things is that you want to meet people where they are. And most digital marketers will tell you one call to action, right? Our testing over and over has shown is three calls to action. There’s the small Yes. The medium, yes. And the heck yes. And I think it’s really important, just to sort of work it into your day to day conversations. Right. So, Frank, I should have done this earlier, when you mentioned my book, right? I’m not on here to sell books, right. But I love it when people get the book and get the ideas.
So a lot of times, I will just tell them, if you want a free copy of the book, you know, just just come back to the website, come back to interview valet.com forward slash r f e Radio Free entrepreneur, or enterprise. Just come back for that you could do a small one is to give them a checklist a podcast to to subscribe to. And then that, heck, yes. If somebody listens to you, and they’re like, wow, this makes sense. For me. This is this is you know, just for me, and Tom works with people like me, he’s had success with people like me, you know, I want to talk with them. Well, that Heck yes, is if they’ve understood you for 30 or 45 minutes, don’t slow them down in the funnel, give them a way to connect.
And so for me, that’s always Hey, if any of this resonated with you, if I can help you, if you’ve got any specific questions, just go to that that page that I mentioned, and I’ll put my calendar scheduling link there. So I really think it’s not so much selling them. But giving them the next steps to take a small via Yes. on medium. Yes. And then the heck yes. And really making it easy for them.
I like that meeting them where they are in the sales funnel instead of as you said, slowing them down, going through a funnel. That makes perfect sense. Now what about how should they prepare you mentioned? You know, you wouldn’t give a speech without being prepared? Should the guest come with? You know, here’s some suggested questions, or here’s what I think we should talk about? Or should they leave that up to the host to ask questions that they think would be interesting. How does that work?
Should I Provide the Podcast Host with a List of Questions?
I think you have to do 100% of your work and 100% of that the hosts work, right? That whole idea of why did my job, let them do their job? No, you’ve been invited onto it. So make it as easy as possible for them. So one of the things is to give them a one sheet of background on you so they know how to introduce you. They know all your social media links. So they’re not wondering, I wonder what time Schwab it is that I’m supposed to be promoting? Or even your headshot your logo, make it easy for them. Even a biography you know, in the industry is called a rip and read biography. So it’s all in third person.
Give them some talking points, that you could talk on things that might spur on a conversation. But don’t tell them. I’m only talking about these five things. To me. I think the word interview is a little bit of a misnomer. I think the best podcasts are a discussion, not necessarily an interview and then preparing yourself You would not walk onto a stage in front of 1000 people and go, I’ve talked before you know, up, Frank invited me here. I’ll just show up. No, you’d want to know what time where can I be there? what’s the what’s the attire on, you’re being invited to the dinner party, you’re being invited to the stage, and you’re the guest. So make sure you know what that is.
Make sure you know what the podcast talks about who the audience is, and you can get some of this from listening to previous episodes, you can also get it from just asking the host. And when Frank and I first started to talk here, I asked him the same question that I asked every host. And that I encourage every one of our clients to ask, ask the host, you know, what are you hoping to get out of this? How? How can I bring the most value? How can I serve your audience, because I think if you come with that heart of service, you’re going to have a great interview that’s going to work for you. If you show up going Hi, I’m here to sell my book. And to sell my product. Nope, nobody likes to listen to an infomercial. So going back to what we said before, serve, serve serve.
How Can I Repurpose the Content from My Podcast Interview?
That’s great. Yeah, people marketplace is pretty smart these days, and you try to beat them over the head with something, it usually doesn’t work certain products and services. It works. But you know, and it occurs to me as you were just saying that about you and I talking and you asking me that question. This is a pretty meta topic, you know, where you’re a podcast guests talking about how to be a podcast guest on a podcast. And anyway, so I guess we’re just we’re all dealing with that as we go along here. You know, one thing you would talk to me about? Or have somewhere I’ve heard you say, has to do with repurposing the content of the podcast after it’s done? What does that mean? And how can I derive value from that?
That means as a business owner, leveraging your time, leveraging your talent, and just do the things that are really good, and really easy to you. So let me give you an example. I’ve written a whole lot of blogs in my lifetime. Every one of them felt like a homework assignment. But yet, I love talking, you know, if you ask me questions about my business, which is my passion, if you ask me about my clients, my team, all of that, that’s a passion, and I’ll talk about that forever. flip around the other side is doing a keynote speech. Sometimes that can be tough. But if you’re just asking questions back and forth, that’s easy. It’s fun. We all like to do that. And then you can take that.
So we could take this video recording here, we could cut it up into different segments and make little 60-second, video clips to put on social media doesn’t take any more of my time, it would just be somebody on the team or an intern, some contractor, or you could take the transcript. Now we all talk at about 150 words a minute. So that means about every five minutes or so you’ve got another blog, and somebody can take that transcript very easily. They can put it into blog format.
And now you’ve got content there, you can take little bits of it and put it up on social media for different means. Last year, I challenged my team, and they were able to get a month’s worth of content, blogs, social media, audio, gram video clips, a month’s worth of content, from every interview, and it didn’t take any more of my time. And so to me, the people that do the interviews, I’m like, That is great. But supercharge it make the most out of every opportunity by repurposing it.
Because right now the studies say 51% of the US population listens to podcasts. If you’re listening to this, you’re one of that 51%. But I remember somebody asked me, when do you think it’ll get to 100? Never. Television radio never got to 100. Right now, 10% of the US population is hearing impaired. They won’t listen to this podcast. But you know what? They may read the transcript. And now it’s so easy to do that. Why wouldn’t you repurpose all your content?
So you’re saying both repurpose it in terms of audio video text, but also where you put it? It could be on your blog, it could be on Facebook, it could be on LinkedIn. And it’s even though it’s all the same content. Now that’s a question I get a lot. Well, this is the same thing. They’re going to hear it and see it and read it and Moon, what’s your response to somebody who might say that to you?
I don’t think everybody’s at the same point at the same time. And I don’t believe that they read every one of my emails and every one of my posts. there’s times where I could send myself the same email every three months. I’d be like, Oh, that’s interesting. I don’t remember that. So I think it’s really not saturating them, but really putting them where it is. and different. Different areas have different bullet formats, right? You don’t want to put a 10 minute video maybe on Instagram, or Tick tock, my customers are not on a tick tock, so I don’t go there.
But you can put different content different places, and really just meeting people where they are being that omnipresent, so that it brings up your stature, you’re seeing more places, you get those social media follows, and you get the backlinks, which really helps you in the traffic, search engine optimization and getting found.
One thing I often say in response to that objection is, hey, if somebody actually remembers having seen or read this somewhere before, you’re onto something good, because there is so much noise, trying to break through where they are, their brain actually goes, Oh, you’ve heard that before? If you’ve seen that read that, then you’re doing good work. Yes, just about out of time,
What’s The Best First Step to Becoming a Podcast Guest?
I want to ask you, you know, let’s say somebody has been listening or watching. And yeah, they’re fired up, and, and maybe they, they’re not ready to reach out to you just yet, Tom, what, outside of that, what would you say is the best next step, first thing they ought to do?
I think the first thing is to realize what’s ordinary to you, is amazing to other people, what you know, could help people and could help yourself. And today, it’s never been easier. And so a lot of times people will think, Well, I’m not perfect yet, I need to get all of this done on my website, I need to get my social media all done, I, I need to take a year of speaking courses, all of this, and Someday, I’ll be ready. You’ll never be perfect. But you’re ready today. And what you know, could really help somebody. And so take it, it’s it’s never been easier to go out there and share what you know, and help someone.
And I would say, you know, I would challenge you, in the next 90 days, you listen to podcasts, you know, podcasters, if you’ve got something that you think could be a value, reach out to a couple of them, and do just what I said, see if the process works, you know, serve them then ask then deliver great content there. Now, I always joke with our clients, we do practice podcasts, interviews with each one. And then like your first interview is going to be your worse always is. So let’s get that over with it.
But you know what? I’ve done 1200. And I’m still learning new things. And so with that, I would just say, first first step, I’m not trying to sell anything here, just go to interview valet.com Ford slash r f e, for Radio Free Enterprise. And there’s an assessment there. It’s will podcast interview marketing, work for me 10 questions, it’ll give you your score. And they’ll give you some hints on what you could do to make it work even better. You know, the book that Frank was nice enough to mention, I sell a lot of copies, but I give more away.
If you just go to interview valet.com/rfe, he can get a free copy of the book. If you’re in the United States. I’ll mail you one. If you’re outside, you get the digital copy. And then finally, if you’re like, wow, this could really work for me or my business. You know, how could we work together? Well, I’ll put my calendar scheduling link there too.
There’s lots of resources over the website. I do most mornings a daily podcast tip. So you can find inspiration there and you can find a lot of good ideas and lessons that other people have learned all back at interview valet.
Tom Schwab. Great stuff. I cannot thank you enough for joining me today.
Thank you, Frank.
Thanks again to Tom and thank you for joining us. Until next time, I’m Frank Felker sand, I’ll see you on the radio.
